The Future of Trust-Based Marketing with Dave Yovanno

Will (00:00)

Dave, thank you so much for joining us on the show today. I’m really excited to get into this conversation with you.

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (00:06)

Absolutely, Will. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here today.

Will (00:11)

Wonderful. Now, before we kind of get into some of the more modern conversation here, I want to step back for a second. you’ve been in the market industry since the late 90s. I’d love to hear kind of how have you seen the landscape evolve and what do you think the shifts are that marketers should be paying attention to?

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (00:29)

Yeah, I think, you know, really, if you want full context, rather than starting 25 years ago, you might as well just roll it back 100 years and get the context of how radio started in the same year as TV, you know, see the programming that people were tuning into and what did brands and advertisers do back then? They would interrupt that programming with an ad. And back then it’s, you know, four out of five doctors say that it’s ok to smoke or they prefer this cigarette brand sort of thing. that’s kind of what society has been trained on, for call it that next 75 years. So when the Internet started, it shouldn’t be surprising to any of us what brands did as soon as that new medium came alive. Right. People were now just kind of in an online format consuming media.

Whether it was written or video or otherwise, and brands did what you would expect them to because they’ve been doing it for the last 75 years. They were trying to interrupt that programming by jamming an ad in front of them, whether it was a display ad, a pop-up, could have been an email, whether it was spam or otherwise, just kind of hitting the consumer over the head with their brand message, with them doing all the talking because that’s kind of what they had been used to for the last 75 years.

Yes, I when I started my career late 90s, I started with a company called ValueClick, which became conversion. Later, got acquired by Alliance Data Systems, part of the Epsilon group. But we came out as an ad network. We had aggregated a network of thousands of websites that really couldn’t get a seat at the table with big advertisers, big agencies. And so we aggregated and packaged up their supply and sold it to brands typically with display advertising formats. I worked with a number of companies throughout, that 25 year period leading up to where I am now at Impact.com and we’ll talk about what’s changed, call it in the last five to 10 years or five to seven years. But during that early period, it was all about, like I said, display ads, pop-ups, code registration, email marketing, just any marketing technique that was popular doing that dot com boom and then what ultimately became the dot com bust and then kind of the rebuild from there. It was just a wild time. Everyone I think was just, enamored and inspired by this new internet thing. And I don’t think people thought about it too hard. was just this race to do something. And so I think that early wave of marketing companies was just really trying to repeat some of the things that we’ve been doing for the last 75 years, but do it in a more digital fashion. And honestly,

I think things kind of got out of control. Brands just got too aggressive simply because they could. If you think about TV programming, let’s say, or even radio program, there’s a limit to the supply. so there was kind of well-understood practices of when you would interrupt programming. It wouldn’t be like every second. It would be between a song or a set of songs or a show or every, called five to seven minutes of a show and ad would in. But with online, it was no real standards. was a member of actually the interactive advertising bureau, an industry group that worked very hard to set some standards for the industry so brands and publishers could trade with each other more seamlessly. And I think made some real strides in standardizing things and trying to create a good experience for the consumer. But really, it was all about the advertiser and the publisher and how to maximize their revenues.

I think who lost out in that exchange, unfortunately, is the consumer who I think just got abused, got overwhelmed with, it was all about your reach, your uniques, how many impressions, how many clicks. And it was the consumer that was hardly on the radar for anyone. It’s just all about volume and growth. But then looking back, you could just see that really we were playing with fire. And at some point that model was going to break. Brands pushed pretty hard.

As they push pretty hard, think consumers started to push back. And when I think about the turning point, honestly, to where we are now, which I know that we’ll get into, but just during this period, I would say it had to have been, if I could think of one company that really started at an inflection point where consumers started to gain control, it was really the rise of YouTube first. And then there were other social publishing platforms that followed what is now, you know, Instagram or Meta, TikTok, Snapchat, others where… know, consumers are really the ones kind of driving the content, right? They’re the ones, talking about products I call social commerce. so you’ve got these social media platforms where consumers are sharing a lot of entertainment stuff, yes, but what has become really popular, especially in the last call it five years, is that they’re also talking about products. And that’s what today’s consumer is really tuning into. So you’ve seen a complete pivot almost of consumers who are… call it for 75, 85 years listening to brands as the number one voice of what about details and research on products. That’s where consumers gravitated to today. I think it has shifted, pretty hard to consumers trusting other people that, are speaking in a more authentic way who are advocating for products in a certain way, even if they are being compensated, which if you go back to the early days of YouTube, it wasn’t as well accepted that if you were talking about products and you were talking about your affiliate lettings, what have you, it was almost like a stain that, of course, it just wasn’t as well accepted that fair trade for content. But now it’s like people expect that people are talking about products, they’re probably gonna be compensated. A lot of people disclose it openly and it’s just well accepted that people who are producing all this social commerce content, that they should be compensated for it.

And it’s not necessarily detracting from the authenticity of what they’re publishing. So you’ve seen a huge rise, I think, in the amount of content about products out there, commerce content. what brands today need to realize is they have lost control of the message, but they’ve gained something even more valuable. And that is really the influence of their consumers by people that they trust. So I would just say flat out where we stand today, brands really don’t have control of the narrative anymore. They’re no longer the stars of the show. They used to be during the era of radio and TV commercials when they came out, where they were the ones doing all the talking. People were kind of in love with that perfect image of a product. Consumers are the ones that are shaping the narrative now. And the shift that’s happened is really that advocacy, honestly, is the future. This is where other people are advocating for your product, where they’re recommending it. It carries just so much more weight than any advertisement ever could. And that’s the real potential power of this shift. And it’s something that brands just need to embrace, It’s a train that you can’t stop, essentially. I would just say that, start from the pay attention. Consumers aren’t just listening to your messages anymore. They’re shaping your brand and you got to engage with them. You got to listen to them. Let them help you tell your story. This is the new world. It’s not about controlling the message anymore. It’s about empowering others.

To do the talking about you. People are going to talk about products, generally speaking, when they like the product. Sure, they’ll lash out if there’s something they really don’t like, but people are finding largely is that people who talk about products are genuinely fans of the products. Otherwise they probably wouldn’t be talking about if they don’t have something nice to say, they’re really not going to waste their time going on a rant. it’s less their passion about something. And so what you see are whether it’s a creator or a publisher of any type or even another business, if they’re aligning themselves with a brand, there’s their investing time getting to know the brand. Now the brand might have some guidelines. Hey, I wish you, if you would talk about this, but they really aren’t trusting that partner to kind of speak in their own voice and their own authentic way to their audience or their customers in their own unique way. And I think, that’s a good thing, right? Because I think at the end of the day, consumers want authenticity. They want somebody to shoot them straight. You they want the straight scoop from somebody. And guess what? The reality is, real life is, there are negatives to a product. That doesn’t mean they spend 15 minutes beating up the product, but they’re going to talk about, what works, what doesn’t. And guess what, brand? People are still going to buy your product, even if somebody talks about some negative points about the product because that is the real way people talk about things. And so I see it as a positive, I guess is my point, that they’re losing control, if they embrace it and understand it.

Will (09:03)

Yeah. I think that that embrace and understand is a key part there. and I mean, we’ve all heard the overly positive to like shiny of a response. And I think nowadays people don’t respond well to that if it’s, you know, just all good. but like you said, most people who are out there who love a brand and love a product are going to dwell on the good and they might just help people figure out which version of the product is the right version for them or, or what is the exact right fit for them. So definitely exciting to see how that balance of power has shifted though.

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (09:32)

Yeah. And I think creators, you know, I’ve learned this from talking to a lot of creators. You we’ve launched our product creator last year. So we’re about a year into it. acquired activate three years ago. I’m talking about impact.com. And as a result of that major project, just had a lot of exposure to creators getting their feedback on our platform. And what they’ll tell you flat out is that their audience has a very high BS filter you’re going to hear about it in comments. You’re going to hear about it through an unsubscribe and no creator wants that. So that’s the other thing that I love about this new dynamic world that we’re in is that there are checks and balances that are all centered around a better customer experience, right? If those publishers or partners or creators and whatever, know, call them, they’re all kind of interchangeable. If they’re not being authentic, they’re going to be less relevant, honestly, to their audience. There’s going to be less earning power for them just smaller audience, which no creator wants essentially. So, you know, I see those as like really important parts of this ecosystem.

Will (10:36)

It’s kind of a self-regulating system in some ways there nowadays with that back and forth between the creator or the advocate and the consumer as a market. We kind of talked about this change that’s happened over the last hundred years, but I think we’ve seen some big kind of forcing functions over the last five years, five years, pardon me, specifically with the COVID-19 pandemic, right? I think it really drove a lot more online behavior.

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (10:39)

Mm-hmm.

Will (11:02)

But I’m curious, how do you think the pandemic influenced this kind customer marketing and what changes have you seen in how brands are now engaging with consumers because of that?

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (11:14)

I mean, it just accelerated everything. You talk about a wild ride over the last 25 years I’ve been in tech, but certainly in the last five years, which is when COVID started, you’ll call it 2020, so four years, guess. Yeah, I mean, just think about everything that happens. I know we all feel like we’re past it, but it is kind of cool to kind of just think about that whole experience. mean, physical stores shut down, in-person shopping, should say, is… extremely limited or non-existent. Brands had to move really fast to just pivot completely to a digital presence and e-commerce sort of experience, right? So e-commerce and social media became the main ways that people and brands especially connected with customers. Then you had, you know, there’s like a bit of a trifecta that happened if you think about it during that time. Like people were sitting at home with nothing to do, some government subsidy money and they essentially kind of deployed their time and resources essentially in two directions. They bought a lot more things online, but they also had free time to publish more content about things. And so that’s why I call that the trifecta, right? You’ve got more time, you’ve got more money, more time to publish content, you have more time to kind of spend shopping and invest those dollars and you have more dollars to invest, generally speaking. So, I think… that era really just accelerated everything. And if you think about it, it was hard to find things like toilet paper. Right. And you’re searching around through your community, trying to find like where to buy like essential items. And, know, for a lot of people that just solely relied on Amazon forever found that, Hey, guess what? Walmart and Costco, who will, you can also order online and they’ll also deliver to your store, actually have it in stock and it’ll be there, later today. And that was like, wow, I didn’t know.

Costco, you know, provided a similar service to Amazon. anyway, I just think the aggregate experience of COVID was accelerated like probably five years of just that entire experience, how people shopped online, how they relied on their community, review of things or where to go for things really kind of forced more of this community aspect to commerce. And then everyone… you’re of operating with more e-commerce as opposed to offline commerce.

Will (13:40)

I mean, think that makes sense that that acceleration just kind of pushing us forward into this continued view of kind of customer marketing and advocacy through that trifecta. I think what’s interesting here is we kind of come to this question of like, now, how do we actually engage these customers and these advocates in this authentic way, right? How do we create that organic feeling, high authenticity experience. Ultimately, how do we leverage our customers and our advocates in this world today?

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (14:11)

So there’s different types of partnerships in this whole partnership economy. But when you talk more specifically about customer advocates and getting your customers to of refer you business from their network of friends or family, let’s say, you got to think about what motivates them.

And what motivates them, I would say, is different from the other types that I mentioned. Most publishers are in the business of publishing content. They’re expecting to earn a living from that, or run a business from that. Same thing with a creator. I don’t care if you’re an individual creator or a team of creators. You’re in the business of creating content, and you’re expecting to get compensated from it. I think customers are different from those other types, in that what is motivating them is not a big paycheck.

I think what motivates them is a combination of things. One is, how passionate they are about the brand. So I’d say the first thing that’s required is that it’s just not a transactional nature that you have with your customer. they might have, good alignment between their values and your values, or they just love your products and they’re buying, multiple SKUs, you know, within your product. Like they’re really all in and believe in the mission of that business sort of thing. So it helps, I think, to… have buy-in that’s beyond just, I found a deal, and they’re not treating it like a commodity sort of thing. Like they’ve got some level of investment in the brand. And so I’m sure we can build more on that, but I think that’s a big part of it. Meaning they feel some obligation to help you out because, they’re invested in you. They’ve done a lot of research. They love your product and, there’s some value exchange or alignment there. I’d say the next thing, really it sounds simple, but just, asking them for a referral. Some people are okay with just loving your product, but if you don’t ask them as a brand to share with their network of friends or family, hey, if you love this product, why don’t you refer one your friends, without even asking for or offering to compensate them, just asking for it. Think about a good analogy, it’s not e-commerce, but if you’re staying at an Airbnb, you love the Airbnb that you stayed at and you leave, you’re not really compelled to write a review. like if you get this request from the host, say, hey, if you love your stay, we’d really appreciate a five star review. It’s going to help other people like you find us better. And so just that app, they’re not offering to pay me anything or anything, but you know, if, you really liked it, you’re probably inclined to share that. But that also leads in that example, it also leads kind of like to another I think point that I would make is the relationship that’s there. I think that you’re more likely to get a response on that review, not just because you had a great stay, but because maybe the host was just an amazing person to deal with. They were very proactive, they answered every question, and you just feel like you like them. There’s a bond there, there’s a relationship. And so I think that same thing translates pretty squarely to what is that customer’s relationship to the brand?

You treat them, whether it was a digital experience or an in-store experience, do they feel connected to you in some way? So, a lot of brands have worked on certain things, like just really cute little handwritten messages that they might send in a package or just something that tells the customer that they’re special, that they are extremely thankful for that customer relationship. so easy ways, I think, to kind of create that connection, that relationship.

And then I would say the last thing would be think about compensation, right? Cause that’s one step further than just asking for the referral, right? Hey, if you love the product, we love it you referred anyone from your network, but going one extra step to say, Hey, and if you do this and somebody, buys my product or signs up for my thing, here’s what’s in it for you. And what I would just say is that that compensation is very different from the other types of partnerships that we talked about. The creators are expecting to get paid. Publishers who are in the business of publishing content are expecting to get paid by brands for that. I think in the world of customer referrals, it could be a gift card. It could be a discount on a future purchase. Chances are they’re really passionate about your product, and they’re really going to value that. Be like, OK, you didn’t have to offer me 15 % off or 20 % off my next purchase, but love that for sure. I feel more obligated even though I was going to anyways. But you know, since you’re offering that added incentive for sure, happy to do it sort of thing. There’s also, I think, an altruistic driver with this type where if you refer a friend and they purchase something, they’re getting 20 % off, right? So it’s less compensation directly to you as a customer, but… feeling good that you’ve helped your friend out, your friends save money to experience, the same quality product that you enjoy, sometimes goes a long way and is like an added motivator, I think, to get somebody to kind of share that recommendation and ultimately drive somebody to your business.

Will (19:09)

Yeah. And I think, you know, just double clicking on that relationship piece, right? I think that’s like such an important piece when we look at these customer referrals, because it’s not just one relationship. It’s kind like a double-sided relationship marketplace, right? You know, the brand to the customer, but the customer to their friend, right? And when that brand and customer relationship is strong and people have trust in the brand and enjoy the product they’re using, they do want to then share that with the world and people who have that relationship with them. I mean, if you think about the recommendations you get from a friend, on what shoes to buy or what tennis racket to look at. I mean, those are some of the few recommendations in the world that might get you to just literally go and buy it and not continue to do a bunch of research or become aware of it, right? Or at least the most powerful ones like that. And I love the altruistic nature because it’s so true. know, in our personal relationships, we’re looking to build our social credit. We’re looking to help our friends out to just help our friends out sometimes. And so, you know, maybe I know that you’re a really big F1 fan and I know that I have the ability to give you early access to F1 tickets. You know, that might just be my nature or maybe even I want to share a product with you because it supports a cause we both care about. And those are things that are just super powerful and the scale is not the scale of the reach of the message, but the scale is the number of people that can share the message. And I think that’s just a really interesting way to look at though that it is, it is still partnership. It is still relationship.

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (20:15)

There you go. Yeah, and the reality is if you think about it 100 % and if you think about it This sort of sharing has always happened like, probably going back a hundred years Like you’ve always talked with your network of friends about products that you’ve enjoyed or we’ve all done it I think the what has changed is Up till now I think brands

Will (20:42)

Right.

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (20:55)

Haven’t really thought about it as an important channel, right, to get referrals, to drive more customer acquisition. Maybe there’s no incentive for them to do it. They weren’t thinking about it. But I would say in general, just brands haven’t made it easy for people to recall it or share a link, what have you. And so I think those are a couple of things have changed. Like I talked about this evolution when publishing first happened on YouTube. If you were getting any affiliate credit for that, people look negatively on that. It’s like, it’s just a cheesy sales. The only reason why he’s publishing this is so that he can make some money. It’s kind of like the multi-level marketing reputation from back in the day. So this person’s just here to sell me something.

Sort of thing. And I think that that stigma is like worn like almost completely off to where people who are publishing content in any form about products online, it is expected that the audience that’s listening is assuming they’re getting compensated in some way. What they’re trying to do is, look at that through their BS filter and determine is this person speaking to me authentically or and if I agree with what they’re saying, I’m to use their links because, look, they took time out to explain something to me. brands don’t go through that level of detail where they’re taking something apart and they’re talking about what’s good, what’s bad. And it’s like, that’s the inside scoop that I’m looking for. Hell yeah. Like I’m going to use this person’s link. Hopefully they get 10 % because they deserve it. They put a lot of work into helping me out, right? That really tough decision that I couldn’t get a straight answer from anyone else. so now customers… are in that same boat. they’re kind of graduating to, the creators that started on YouTube called seven years ago, they’re now rolling in terms of like a real system around what’s accepted, like commerce content being published. And it’s well accepted that they’re being compensated for this. What’s happening in this customer advocacy, this customer referral space now is what had just been, kind of randomly a person would talk about something.

Will (22:32)

Mm-hmm.

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (22:49)

Brands could never really attribute that to a referral because somebody would just buy a product and there’s no way to kind of link back if you will. And now you’ve got brands that are just proactively, whether it’s through an email or a receipt or what have you, saying, hey, if you love this, use this code, share this link with your friends. They’re just kind of making it easier. Number one, I think, for customers to share. But number two, my point is, if you’re understanding my flow of trying to explain is that I think people feel… it’s more acceptable to share that without feeling like that multi-level marker where there’s like this negative stigma associated with it. I think all that adds up to a more meaningful channel, call it a sub channel, I guess, of this type, to get customers referring other customers at scale now that didn’t exist even a couple of years ago.

Will (23:41)

You know, think touching on that point of like the social acceptability is so important, but also as we look at kind of like this idea that people are like evolving through the types of maybe partnerships or the level of professionalism.

I guess as we look forward to the future of this kind of like partner marketing, customer marketing, how do you see the interoperability of these people? You talk about YouTubers that are kind of like rolling and really have a system now and maybe are closer to publishers and maybe customers. What do you see as kind of that whole coming together of these different types of partnerships?

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (24:17)

Well, when you talk about the whole, like right away, I think of just marketing as a whole, just like kind of starting with that. think it’s something like a trillion dollars is spent globally on marketing. And what I worry about is brands are deploying a lot of that investment in the traditional ways that we had talked about, going back to how radio and TV first started, right? You just kind of interrupting with the traditional brand message, your brand control message. And it’s very disruptive and disruptive if you think about it.

Compare that to people who are finding, in a social commerce sort of experience, they’re finding that commerce content where people are talking about product, they’re reviewing products. people are actively searching for that information as opposed to being interrupted. And that is now kind of like the primary way people are at least making decisions about products and oftentimes finding out about products.

When I think about this trillion dollars that’s spent in marketing, do think holistically there is a bit of a surround sound, a concert effect, I So I would never say Hey, you know, stop what you’re doing over here. Everything needs to go over here. That’s not the way that this works. Cause the truth is somebody might find out about a product through a traditional TV ad or outdoor ad or whatever it is, you traditional media. But the very next thing that they’re going to do is they’re going to get online and they’re going to try and find out what other people have to say about it. Right. And certainly if a friend of theirs is saying, Hey, I bought this thing. I mean, for me, it was like this Arcos golf thing. It’s like this little thing that screws onto the top of your shaft or your golf club that, when you pull it out of your bag, it knows what club you’re using. It knows when you hit the ball, because it’s talking to a mic on your phone. That’s like the coolest thing ever. Right. And so, you know, a that to me, like kind of hard to get all that complexity through like a TV ad. You know, kind of need to hear about that from somebody else, especially somebody that you trust that you play golf with.

Sort of thing. I’m not a big golf person by the way, but I am a tech geek and so when cool products like that come out, like even though I’m not a great golfer, of course I’m going to try and use a gadget like that. But anyway, my point is, when I think about how a trillion dollars is invested globally across all of marketing, what I think brands need to take serious is that how consumers are, following their journey.

I gave a talk at a major event that my company has back in June where I talked about going from full funnel to full circle. And in that illustration, what I’m talking about is it’s no longer about the ADA model, awareness, interest, decision, action. It’s about the discovery piece that might happen in a community setting and going back to a good customer experience and how customers talk about your products.

It also feeds the discovery piece. It’s kind of like the main point there. so, just knowing how consumers are kind of shifting, their path to purchase, but then beyond that, how they talk about products. think brands need to like fully invest in this as, not just, kind of a happenstance, ad hoc or, or a small channel. This has become the major channel for most of the brands that at least Impact.com does business with. It’s roughly 30 % of customer and revenue acquisition for the mature customers on our platform, but even more importantly, growing at a rate of like 50 % every year. And so what I’d advocate for is, you want to be kind of a laggard with this pivot that’s happening and how consumers are finding out about products and making their decisions about products, or do you want to be leader and start to reallocate some of that investment from… these traditional channels that are clearly not as efficient for whole other reasons. But I think more importantly, you’re just not as relevant to today’s buyer. If you’re continuing to rely on the traditional channels where the brand is doing all the talking, you’ve got to embrace the fact that if you want to relate to customers, you’ve got to go through this partnership channel and trust others to talk about you and get them in a position to refer you business.

Will (28:11)

You know, I think it’s wild to kind of just say this all really comes to trust, right? At the end of the day, here we are trying to help people establish that trust. And we’ve kind of seen this, this trillion dollars spent on that brand advertising maybe isn’t developing the trust that’s available if you go in and explore in the different types of partnership, right? And that can really, really be an instrumental mover for a company’s revenue targets.

We’ve enjoyed this conversation, we’ve taken up a good chunk of your time here and I really do appreciate it Dave. I think as we kind of wrap up, it’d be wonderful if there was one key lesson, one piece of advice that you wish that a brand or an advertiser would understand from our conversation today. What would that piece of advice be to them?

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (28:56)

You know, there’s, you know, we came out with the partnership economy, I think it was a couple of years ago. And, in the book, we give some tips to brands and how they action, how to be successful in navigating this partnership economy and really getting the most out of it. And the number one thing that I think I talk about in those tips is studying and talking to your customers. And I think once you do that, it will become very clear and you’re asking questions like how did you find out about me my product? what are other businesses? That you do business with right? Those are your potential partners essentially, but you know I don’t care what business you’re in and I say this for myself internally a lot of my company It’s like you’ve got to talk to customers our business has many customers. We’ve got brands as customers. We’ve got publishers and creators and other partners as customers. got agencies as partners. We got tech partnerships who are essentially customers of our company. we’re constantly talking to them about how they’re operating, how they’re buying, what are they hearing from their customers? And that informs how we relate to the customers that we’re trying to do business. So if I had to summarize it, guess off the of my head, that’s the number one thing. if you’re acquiring a customer you’re experiencing, inefficiencies with your traditional channels or traditional digital channels, I would say run a survey, call people, hey, I saw that you just bought our product. have a chat with you for five, 10 minutes, happy to send you a gift card and follow up. But tell me how you found us, how did you do your research, how did you make that decision?

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (30:32)

yeah. So I think if you’re having those conversations with your customer, I think you’re going to be really, interested to find out if you haven’t had these conversations in a while that, know, they’re finding out about you in ways that are different from how they found out about you call it 10 years ago, right? The way that they’re researching and making decisions.

That critical decision on whether they’re buying you or someone else. they probably found out about that piece of information from a creator, let’s say, or someone else that had written about it that isn’t, a traditional source of how you’ve acquired customers. And, I think if you put all that research together, you’re going to find you’re going to be able to confirm the importance of this category of this channel. And it’s going to inspire you, I think, to to engage and invest more in it.

Will (31:16)

You know, I love that going back and talking to the customer and using this lens of partnerships and looking for who is influencing their journey. more so than just saying, where can I put an ad in their journey? You know, can I, you know, is that just where can I put a banner ad on a website? It’s like, can I actually partner with that website and create this like social commerce or a really engaging, authentic partnership experience with a publisher or a creator or, know, a customer referral. So I think that that’s an awesome piece of advice to end on Dave. So before we break the very last question, I know I said I only had one last question, but the very quick last question is, if people would like to connect with you, continue to learn about what you’re talking about here today, what would be the best way for them to do that?

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (31:58)

I’m on LinkedIn, I think it’s Dave Yovano, be easy to find. So message me on LinkedIn, Dave at Impact.com. You can check out the Partnerships book in terms of the book that I wrote on partnership economy. Lots of ways to get in touch. I always love hearing feedback.

Will (32:17)

Wonderful, well Dave, thank you so much for your time today. I know I learned a ton, I’m sure our audience did as well. We’ll put links to everything you just mentioned there in the description and just thank you so much again.

Dave Yovanno (impact.com) (32:28)

Thanks for watching.

Will (32:30)

Cheers.