Exclusive Kick-Off: Dave & Todd’s Lessons Learned & What’s Ahead

[00:00:05] David Yovanno I’m David Yovanno.

[00:00:06] Todd Crawford And I’m Todd Crawford.

[00:00:07] David Yovanno And we’re the hosts of The Partnership Economy Podcast. So for the first time ever on the Pod, Todd and I are excited to sit down together and reflect on the standout themes from Season five, along with our most impactful insights from all of 2024. So kicking off our wrap report of Season five, where Todd and I interviewed a total of nine industry leaders, the first theme that stood out to us from these conversations was the fact that drum roll, please, people trust people over ads. And I want to start, Todd, with a question that is at the heart of this podcast. When was the last time you or anyone listening here made a purchase without seeking a third party opinion? Can you remember the last time you did that, Todd? Probably not.

[00:00:51] Todd Crawford Well, actually I can. And it not just in Season five, but across all the seasons. My example I always use in researching purchases as chef knives is just the example I’ve always stuck with. And over the holiday, I spent hours and hours researching Japanese kitchen knives, cutting boards, and I probably spent 12 to 1500 dollars and got four knives, two cutting boards. And I am happy and satisfied. And I could not have done that without YouTubers and creators kind of giving me insights on what to look for, the pros and cons, everything. And it obviously works.

[00:01:30] David Yovanno Yeah. And I think that that has become the norm now. I think for most people, the answer is rarely. You know that where you’re not out there checking to see what other people have to say about something to give you a straight scoop on what’s good, what’s bad about a product that you’re thinking about.

[00:01:43] Todd Crawford We can ground this even further, David with the release of our Consumer Journey report with eMarketer, we surveyed a thousand U.S. adults and found that most shoppers discover new products weekly but don’t buy immediately. And on average, they research a product three times before making a decision. So there’s so much data out there. And this just further reinforces that. I mean, me alone should stand as the, you know, the hard, cold truth because I research everything I buy.

[00:02:09] David Yovanno When you really look at I think what’s really being disrupted here is traditional advertising, right? So despite the trillion dollars that spent globally, it’s losing its effectiveness because people no longer trust what brands themselves are saying. People trust what other people have to say about a product. These are friends, they’re creators, there’s publishers, there’s reviewers, these are real people who’ve had experience or have some trusted opinion on a product that just happens to not be the brand themselves. So I think, you know, the research that you’re quoting there really speaks to that.

[00:02:48] Todd Crawford Yeah, it reminds me of my discussion with Kerry Curran when when she said, you know, having your brand across a diverse publisher mix increases the potential to connect with your target audience, whether they’re intentionally or unintentionally looking for something to purchase. And it’s all about increasing exposure to your products and services. That awareness from a trusted third party, not just you as a brand, telling them it’s a great product or service. And I think that’s really resonating with consumers at a level, you know, unheard of.

[00:03:16] David Yovanno In order to show up in that research. Brands need to be drawing alliances with these people who are talking about their products and form a partnership with them. Right? There’s there’s no other option brands need strong advocates to share their brand messaging in these online spaces that consumers are already spending time in and going to for this trusted information. And when you think about it, this isn’t a new phenomenon. People have always trusted other people more than ads. Right? But I think the difference today is the level of access that people have today to commercial information. This is information about products compared to, let’s say, just ten years ago. Social commerce information is everywhere today and consumers are leveraging it before they make that purchase. They’re turning to reviews, TikTok unboxing, YouTube demonstrations and word of mouth recommendations and the rise of these social channels and community driven publishing platforms like YouTube, like Instagram, like TikTok especially. I think it marks the decline of the brand control narrative that has been in place for over 100 years.

[00:04:25] Todd Crawford It’s inevitable, I mean. Consumers aren’t stupid. Right? And they they they want to make a smart buying decision and they want to learn from somebody who’s already done it. In my discussions with Jeanette Okwu from BeyondInfluence, I thought she hit the nail on the head, saying quite simply, people buy from people, not brands. That’s the trend here. And it’s just as you pointed out, in the old days, it could have been, you know, literally word of mouth. Today it’s the Internet. It the access to information is is astounding. I mean, just they said, researching, buying Japanese knives, it was like going down a rabbit hole. I probably watched 50 YouTube videos and creator content pieces to to make my decision.

[00:05:08] David Yovanno It might be good for us to spar back and forth here a little bit of on some interesting quotes from our guest. So you just mentioned Jeanette. It reminds me of the conversation I had with Jackie Pimentel, who also gave a great example of this shift from a platform perspective. Jackie and I discussed how Meta’s advertising model has evolved from the launch of the Facebook newsfeed in 2006 to sidebar to ads to today, where brand messaging is weave into content instead of around it. So as Jackie put it, a direct quote from her, You want to hear the brand, but you want to hear it from the people who you relate to. That’s a direct quote from our conversation. I just love that.

[00:05:48] Todd Crawford Yeah. And if you look at the big picture, connecting with people ultimately leads to connecting with communities. And the power of communities has never been greater. And platforms like TikTok and YouTube, they’ve really built this type of environment where people gravitate to, you know, topics and content that they’re really passionate about or want to learn more about. Ads and information is all part of that now, whatever your interest is, there’s something out there that you can get into, whether it’s a Facebook group or whatever, and that that’s really where I think people again, are learning about potential purchases, not just even researching existing purchases, but kind of getting pulled into a purchase that they maybe weren’t initially thinking about.

[00:06:29] David Yovanno Yeah, you threw out some stats at the beginning. And you know, as a company impact.com, we’ve been tracking, you know, a lot of trends obviously in the space. You know, one thing that stood out to me is that over half of Gen Z uses TikTok as their primary search engine, 70 percent of Gen Z and nearly as many millennials only trust a brand after conducting their own independent research. It’s a monumental shift because it shows that modern consumers truly are looking to their communities for answers. TikTok encapsulated it best, I thought, when they said communities are the new demographics. And I think what this shift has evolved to is the creation of a of a new era of social commerce, right? Brands no longer fully control the narrative. And although that sounds scary, especially if you’re a brand, I think is actually a good thing, right? It opens the door to greater transparency, more authenticity, more effective customer acquisition, you know, partnerships which, you know, are typically with creators, with publishers, customers, even other brands or businesses, they’ve really become the most effective way to meet consumers where they are, right? These relationships, they’re not just a marketing tactic, right? They’re the foundation of being able to relate better, I think, to today’s consumer and also a key vehicle and a vessel now for growth. I think that’s enough, Todd. Probably on the first theme, right? And again, just to recap, we called that first theme, the fact that people trust people over ads. Todd do you want to introduce the next thing that we talked about?

[00:08:00] Todd Crawford If you’re a brand and you’re working with creators, you know you need to treat your partners like people right? They’re they’re the ones that are echoing and sharing their opinions. And I think a lot of people, especially coming from more of the affiliate world, see this as a as a normal thing. But most people in the traditional advertising, they’re not interacting with people and partners. They’re interacting with your marketing machines. You know, they’re plugging in their budget and seeing the result. People are at the heart of this channel and therefore, the most successful partnerships are the ones where brands, you know, treat partners like people. And that’s what makes partnerships so different from traditional advertising and other paid channels. They’re not just, like I said, buying those ad slots and putting dollars in and out. You’re creating long term relationships, and those people actually become an extension of your brand and continue to build content and exposure. There’s more challenges to that because there’s a lot more moving pieces, there’s brand guidelines and other things. But you know, what we’re seeing across the board with our customers is that those they’re really excited about this and this is really the right approach to getting that authenticity out there. You’re not really telling them what to say. You’re giving them the guidelines. And some of those guidelines erode over time because of the comfort level. But it’s it’s really the right way to build out these kinds of partnerships and channels.

[00:09:19] David Yovanno I agree. And this theme especially really reminds me of something that Vana Han from Tiktok touched on when I talked to her. And she said. Each partner is different. You have to treat them like a person, as a friend, as a family member, versus just another number in your program. That really stood out to me. You know, when you’re trying to build relationships, whether it be small or at scale, it should be authentic. She’s not talking about, you know, that let’s say that creator’s authentic relationship with their audience. She’s talking about her as a business, how she is trying to manage a relationship with the partners who are referring her, essentially, this is what’s unique, I think, about the partnership economy, this partnerships channel. It’s not about transactions, right? It’s about building real relationships, even if it’s something as trivial as emailing your partners, like you’re sending them a text message. If you don’t take the time to understand your partners and what they bring to the table, you’re missing the entire point of this channel, the partnership channel. It’s not like the traditional advertising channel that’s very transactional, right? Where you’re filling a whole new page with an ad designed by a brand that’s a slot that is sold to the highest bidder. That’s the world of advertising. The world of partnerships is much deeper than that. And a major reason for that, I think, is the authenticity required by the partner and how they address their audience or their customers and making a recommendation or referral.

[00:10:45] Todd Crawford Yeah. And I talked with Jen Bentz from Resident Home. You know, they sell all different brands of mattresses in line, which is a high consideration purchase. And but she put it best when she explained how creators feel about brand partnerships. You know, they don’t want to work with someone and be done right after it. They want to work with one brand multiple times. They want that relationship as well, right? It builds credibility with their audience. You can treat partnerships as passive channels, but they are you know, there is that human element and trust is is the currency here. We’ve seen it over and over. And you’ve interviewed creators. I mean, they’re really want to partner with brands. It’s not about, you know, give me 5,000 dollars and I’m out of here. You know, they understand that that exchange the back and forth.

[00:11:31] David Yovanno And research that our company has done. One of the big things that has stood out to me is that, you know, brands don’t want to be working with, you know, a lot of different creators. They’d rather work with fewer creators over a longer period of time. And guess what? Creators want the same thing. It takes time to invest in each other, to understand each other, to speak authentically, to get the deep knowledge and insight on products, to speak intelligently about it. And again, it’s just another, I guess, requirement and unique characteristic of this channel. And when you treat your partners like real people, I think you’re unlocking something incredible, loyalty, right? Those authentic relationships are what inspire partners to advocate for your brand by connecting you with new audiences, pushing customers closer to your business. Again, those relationships, they don’t just happen out of thin air. They’re built and they require an investment.

[00:12:20] Todd Crawford Yeah, I when I was talking with Lacie Thompson from New Engen on this, when describing how to build a solid relationship with publishers, she said, you know, help them understand why you’re having a perspective. You know, it’s our job as a brand and agencies to have conversations and give them the information to be the best partner and advocate for the right things to drive the business value for you. And, you know, partnerships work best when there’s alignment between the goals. And, you know, you can’t really force these things. And that’s where it doesn’t seem as authentic. Even these relationships with your creators, it’s not something you get through one phone call and one message. It is that long term relationship where it builds and builds and to me, it creates a competitive barrier. Right? Now you’ve got these creators working for you, loyal to you, and it’s much harder for someone to come in and displace them or distract them when you’ve got really a great partnership that’s working. All right. Well, I think that covers a theme two on treating your partners like people and the importance of having a strong relationship with your creators to really build out a successful channel. So I think going into theme three, which is creators, is pretty appropriate because I don’t think we could recap Season five or 2024 for that matter, without talking about one of the fastest growing partnership types creators. And right now this is a tidal wave of creators coming online to talk about products, what they love, dislike and everything in between. You know, we’re seeing this across our our client base where they’re just dipping their toe into it. They’re already into it a year and they’re all going through very similar things. But at the end of the day, it’s paying off and it’s really building their business and it’s really, really exciting right now. I’m just couldn’t be more excited to have being in an industry for over 25 years with this kind of new facet of of partnerships and exposure to consumers.

[00:14:17] David Yovanno I couldn’t agree more, Todd. I share the same excitement, enthusiasm from all of our recent discussions. One thing is clear brands are trying to connect with creators. Creators are trying to connect with brands, right? And agencies are doing their part to help foster these relationships. I think the sheer size and potential of this partnership type, it’s it’s hard to fathom. It’s expected to double in size over the next five years, surpassing 480 billion U.S. dollars, according to Goldman Sachs. And so, Todd, when you draw on the conversations that we’ve had this season, what are some of the tips that we’ve learned for brands who are looking to make use of this new and massive addressable market?

[00:14:54] Todd Crawford Yeah I think it starts with, you know, the pitch to management and setting goals and objectives and get in securing budget to essentially test if you’re launching. Right? And what we’ve seen through our client bases is a lot of the performance team that’s kind of standing up this the micro creator partnership strategy where maybe PR is still handling the the macro. And so one of the probably first things that kind of gets conflated is that we’re going to do pure commission performance based with creators, which typically are higher in the funnel. And so you definitely don’t want to maybe have that as your sole strategy because you’ll miss the mark both in terms of compensation and mindset. When working creators, you can often expect to pay a flat fee for them to post about your brand. This is to say that it’s a performance contract that can’t be part of the deal, but it’s likely not the only way you’ll be compensating your creators. There’s there’s a lot of really interesting models that brands have been using to really not only compensate but continue to keep them engaged in. That I think is really important because if they if they’re working solely on the commission, they maybe don’t see the results. They expect you’re going to lose that partnership.

[00:16:10] David Yovanno I think this discussion topic is probably been the hottest in 2024, right? The compensation models from brands to their creator partners essentially, and we’ve noticed the performance aspect really comes in when a brand wants to incentivize a creator to work with them long term. Right? To continuously drive sales. This whole discussion, you think you think of the flat fee almost as the fee that you’ll pay an advertising agency to create your ad, right? This this is the cost of filming. There’s set up, there’s posting. But when you combine this with a performance based contract, you know, you’re paying the, you know, for the creator to be a long term sales advocate for your brand. And that just makes sense. Or the combination of a flat fee plus a performance contract, which we’ve often talked about, is is calling that a post plus model where you’re paying to post something which has value plus, you know, a commission or some other bonus compensation and sales are generated. This model is definitely, you know, one to consider as as 80 percent of creators agree that they like this hybrid compensation model.

[00:17:14] Todd Crawford And I think that’s sometimes the biggest hurdle to get over if the performance team is assuming this. But I think through testing and in learnings, they they adapt to that. And again, it’s it’s got to be a win win, right? It can’t just be all about the brand. And like we said, we’re trying to treat our partners as people and they need to get paid, right? So that’s pretty important. And the other thing is, when it comes to a brand’s mindset, you know, you have to meet creators where they are understanding their needs and how they’re looking to evaluate you. Jeanette Okwu pointed out that if you want to get serious influencers involved, they’re going to look at you. And if you don’t pay attention to your own social media channels, they probably won’t want to work with you because it comes back to them as well. So, you know, this is a two sided coin, right? You need to kind of have your, your, your ducks in a row and and kind of talk the talk as well.

[00:18:07] David Yovanno Yeah. And back to the structure of the compensation model. I think it’s helpful for brands especially to kind of frame it. As you know, let’s understand kind of the balance of control, right? Basically where we’re brands are heavily controlling the image, the copy, what is said, that’s more like an ad because of the control being more brand oriented, the cost and risk should fall more to the brand, right? That’s what they’re used to In the traditional advertising model, you’re going to pay a CPM, let’s say you’re going to take the risk on how well I performance. When brands are now working with creators and you really want to tap into the value that you’re not just talking about around authenticity and things like that, you want to relinquish control to the creator or to the publisher to speak in their own tone in way to their audience because they know their audience better than the brand, but because the brand’s not fully controlling it, they can’t take all the risk. You know what I mean? So it makes sense to shift some of the risk to performance based because you know that that partner is choosing how to speak about the brand. They may actually talk about bad things about the product. The reality is real people will still buy something knowing the weaknesses of a product, right? That that’s real life, right? Real life is not this perfect image of an ad, And then what you get is nowhere close to that. That’s flat out lying misperception sort of thing. But anyway, you know, if that makes sense, it’s just like understanding, you know, where the balance of control sits and delivering the message. Like the more it clearly sits with the creator, that creators should expect to be compensated more on a performance basis, maybe, maybe not fully, because even them, even them posting something has value, even if it’s a nominal fixed payment for the the work, the effort that it takes to produce something, get to know the brand, produce content post that has value. And so that’s why we heavily advocate for this hybrid or postplus sort of model. You know, it’s not just, Hey, here’s a product, go talk about it. It’s about capturing the attention of the consumer that you’re trying to get to buy and use your product. And so you want that creator or that that partner to speak authentically and figure out the payment model that actually works for both sides. Just considering this unique dynamic in this channel. Brands are shifting dollars into the space because they see the potential. But with that shift comes a responsibility, I think, to do it right.

[00:20:35] Todd Crawford When a brand thinks about guidelines for creators, I mean, the best way to think of them is, is that they’re there to help them understand your product so that they can be authentic. And maybe there’s the guidelines. We prefer you not to go outside of them, but it’s not telling them what to do. It’s just helping them to understand what you want said or how you see your products and services and then let them be authentic in their voice. And I think that’s where guidelines get a little too tight because authenticity really is the key to this partnership type. Jen Bentz talked about this preference for real reviews and related ability in ad content people prefer. She highlighted that, people respond best to the user generated content produced by creators because it comes across more unpolished, saying, you know, the content they create works so much better than getting a highly produced ad, they test the user generated content in their own social media and it far outperforms anything that they can produce in-house. So, you know, that’s the other benefit of this channel is the getting rights to the user generated content and being able to amplify your social marketing as well. I know you had a chance to talk to a creator this season. What advice did they have on how to succeed as a creator?

[00:21:52] David Yovanno I had a really insightful conversation with Marcel Flores. He’s a very popular creator. We did a deep dive into, you know, what the industry is like from a creator’s perspective, and I always love having these conversations, and it’s actually one of the fun things, I think, about the job that you and I are both and where we get to get to talk to so many different actors, if you will, within this economy. And they all have their own unique perspective and dynamics, which I just find fascinating. But one thing he said which really stood out to me was don’t create if your creator, don’t create content just to go viral. He said, Of course you’re aiming for real virility, but don’t do it just for that. That was his direct quote. Right? And his point, I think, was that people need to go to your page and your content to understand who you are as a creator, right? Your niche, what they can expect from your content. And if you’re constantly just trying to make viral moments happen, you might get a big hit of exposure. But people won’t connect you with when they go to your page and don’t understand what you stand for. He summarized it I think, really well by saying, make sure that you’re setting your brand up properly beforehand so that if you go viral that people go to your profile and they see the same type and level of quality of content on your page, you can actually build a brand that way. So stay away from the one hit wonders. You know, essentially right right, invest in your brand, have an identity, stand behind that and have a pattern. You may get a big hit, but it’s can be very hard to replicate and get a strong following if you’re not being true to yourself.

[00:23:24] Todd Crawford Yeah, I think that point around building a brand is really crucial. The most successful creators are the ones who who think in the long term and have a vision for themselves. Right? They they see where they want to take their their platform and their voice and and to be consistent, you know, someone finds your one viral moment and then they go there and there’s all kinds of other chaos. It doesn’t resonate. But when it suddenly, like in my example, Japanese cooking knives, I can just go through multiple videos or YouTube shorts or full videos and really kind of go down that rabbit hole and get all the information that I need. And it’s consistent and easy to consume.

[00:24:01] David Yovanno Absolutely. And you know, another trend that I didn’t really fully appreciate or pay attention to until a couple of conversations this season was, let’s not forget that creators are real people and they they go through evolutions in their lives. So like what made them popular a couple of years ago, maybe their life has changed and they’re able to kind of keep up with the same type of content that their audience from a couple of years ago demands. Essentially, if you want your audience to stick by you, they need to truly connect with you. And I spoke to another creator not this season, but in the past. Chloe Wen, you know, it’s just been amazing to see her audience evolve alongside her. She started out making beauty and fashion content, but then brought her followers along as she bought a house and became a first time mother. As a creator, you’re going to change, right? So make sure that your audience trusts you and is loyal to you. It’s just it’s just hugely important.

[00:24:56] Todd Crawford It’s a big challenge for a lot of creators as they’re as they mature in life and just their interests evolve and change or their life changes to kind of maintain that trust and continue to grow and deliver great content. So are there any other quick tips you can share with aspiring creators out there based on these conversations?

[00:25:15] David Yovanno Yeah, a couple, and Marcel was good about providing some helpful tactical advice, especially it comes to navigating different social platforms. He recommends YouTube and I’ve heard this from a number of creators, right? Because it has a very powerful search engine functionality. It’s got evergreen content. I hear this probably most often from creators. They like publishing on YouTube. The content sits out there for years. It’s searchable, it’s longer form, there’s more monetization sort of opportunities compared to more flash in the pan sort of content exposure and life essentially of content that might exist on a TikTok or even an Instagram sort of platform. So, you know, that was one big pro-tip. I think YouTube’s got a lot of great monetization options for creators, both based on ad revenue and the fact that you can put affiliate links in your video descriptions. He also said that Instagram is great for visual storytelling and connecting with millennial audiences, whereas TikTok is great for exposure, virality, authenticity, connecting with a Gen-z audience. I think it’s overall advice, though, is to use filming opportunities to create multiple forms of content for each platform. For example, a full length video for YouTube. It’s high quality pictures for Instagram and a behind the scenes video, let’s say, for for TikTok.

[00:26:32] Todd Crawford Yeah. And that really hammers home this whole idea of having to pay a little something upfront because the best creators, they’re mocking up, you know, their shoot. They know they’re going out to do this. They’re going to shoot content for three different four different platforms. Then they’ve got to go and edit it. I think some people don’t realize the amount of work that goes into that. Again, you get amazing user generated content. It connects with consumers. So that was super helpful. It’s obvious when it comes to creative partnerships, there’s no one size fits all formula and we’re all still actively learning in this space. But I’m sure even after Season six we’ll have more insights to share.

[00:27:07] David Yovanno Let’s say the last thing that I would add just tactically, just as a as a as a point of, you know, some of the tips around how creators are working. But what’s become popular is to shoot in like an eight by seven sort of format. And what they’re saying is that allows you to easily it’s more of a full frame format, especially a video where you can, you know, edited the same same video that you capture. You can edit vertical as well as horizontal for YouTube’s that you can get your content distributed. You have multiple cuts of the same content to be distributed on the different platforms. So lots of learnings. You know, I think that’s a pretty good wrap actually to this third theme around just creators in general, just the rise of creators, the massive opportunity for brands to work with creators for creators to work with brands. You know, interestingly enough, like surveys are still being done, people graduating high school and college, the number one job people want us to be a successful creator. And I don’t see that stopping anytime soon. So hard for us to not acknowledge that. So, Todd, moving on to our next theme, you know, maybe just a high level question, what are some other partnership types would you say that that came up during your discussions this year?

[00:28:15] Todd Crawford Yeah, I think one that doesn’t get enough of a spotlight. And I think it’s because most of what creators and affiliates and other types of partnerships are focused more in the e-commerce world are B2B partnerships. And we have to call out B2B partnerships are becoming increasingly important in business today. You know, there’s a misconception that this refers primarily to like SaaS partnerships or reseller deals, but in reality it means partnering with any complementary business to drive sales. It’s a long term strategy that creates mutual value for both organizations. And we’ve seen quite a few companies on our platform that are focused exclusively on on B2B. And it’s it is a different animal. There’s similarities. It has so much potential. And I think it’s something else being under leveraged right now that has a lot of potential.

[00:29:05] David Yovanno Absolutely. I it makes me think of the conversation I had with Dan Armstrong from Ticketmaster. And by the way, I love these conversations because not only are we getting to meet like different actors in this ecosystem, but you’re learning something about businesses that we all know but maybe don’t deeply understand how the world of, you know, Ticketmaster and concerts and events actually works. And Dan did a beautiful job of just unpacking the industry, which I found fascinating on its own, let alone the partnership economy aspects of it. But Dan, in our conversation talked about, you know, two great examples I can recall on B2B type of partnerships that Ticketmaster has under his leadership. The first was this partnership between Ticketmaster and Spotify, and this is where they’re enabling listeners to book concert tickets while they’re in the Spotify app and already listening to their favorite artists. The second was the partnership between Ticketmaster and travel agencies. So Ticketmaster noticed an uptick in travel and demand for live events, especially after Covid. And so they partnered with these agencies to sell event tickets. When you hear about these partnerships, you realize that they just make sense, right? Both organizations benefit from working together, and the end consumer has a much better experience because of it. And that is the part that excites me the most, right? When you think about the world of partnerships and the people who use your product who are other like adjacent non-endemic sort of businesses. That makes sense for you to kind of, you know, do a collab with. Right? Like create a better user experience for your shared customer.

[00:30:40] Todd Crawford You know, B2B partnerships are often underutilized or they’re already happening with or without companies realizing it themselves. One of the examples I always use is, you know, if there’s a marketing team and the CMO, there’s nobody in the organization, unbeknownst to her doing marketing. In the sales team, there’s, you know, the CRO doesn’t have somebody in some other building or department doing sales. They all roll up under this conductor. And I think a lot of B2B partnerships and things like that can happen, kind of be fragmented. And there’s no real conductor, there’s no plan, there’s no strategy. And I think harnessing those teams together or getting a more coordinated strategy is really key to. You know, obviously making this successful, but really being aligned and measuring and getting getting results because it’s it’s it can’t happen like that, you know, this kind of BD here, BD there or whatever you want to call it for these types of partnerships, I think that you end up missing the mark.

[00:31:42] David Yovanno I think a lot of people that hear us talk like this are a bit overwhelmed about even where to start. Like you’ve had a lot of conversations this season. You’ve obviously are a veteran in this industry, what are, and I’ll kind of do a fast talk because I’ll give you my thoughts as well. But, you know, just curious for you to maybe unpack how you think brands should consider forming these B2B partnerships and utilizing this this untapped potential.

[00:32:06] Todd Crawford You know, you have to start with adopting a consumer first point of view, right? Where would my customer naturally look for information, validation or solutions that I offer and you realize that other business consumers interact with come to mind? Some of the examples you gave, which was just a natural fit. I remember the first time I saw that Ticketmaster in inside a Spotify when looking at a band, seeing that they’re on tour and be able to click in and buy a ticket, it’s super organic, feels natural, it’s not forced, it’s not advertising from my perspective as a Spotify user. So I think, you know, it’s really trying to get where your customers are trying to make a decision or learning and finding those other businesses that or they’re just complementary, you know? I mean, silly. But, you know, most shoe companies sell socks and vice versa. But, you know, this is a simple example. If you’re buying these shoes, we don’t sell socks. But here’s a coupon for our deal for socks from this company that we think are a great fit for this shoe, you know? Again, it’s it’s that type of partnership opportunities that people should be looking for.

[00:33:15] David Yovanno Yeah. And just to pile on, I think a very simple but very powerful idea is to interview your customers. Right? Learn about the other businesses that they interact with throughout their journey. So, for example, you can ask where do they go for information about your product type? What platforms? What business? Other resources that are part of their buying process. And I think the answer is will reveal very valuable partnership opportunities leads, you know, for you to go and pursue to form alliance with those other businesses or those other partners where they’re sourcing information or where they’re conducting business. And, you know, I think what you’re going to find is that these are the ones that are going to naturally align with that customer journey and align with you. And so by forming these partnerships, you’re not just forcing yourself into the conversation, you’re meeting your customers exactly where they already are. I think that’s the most powerful opportunity here.

[00:34:04] Todd Crawford Yeah. And in terms of, you know, putting these strategic partnerships into action, Adam Glazer from Partner Commerce, which they actually focus on B2B partnerships for clients, provided some helpful advice. He said affiliate becomes a resource to the rest of the company to go out and get those partners to incentivize them and reward them for creating demand and supporting them in active campaigns. Essentially, if you already have the tools and process to run your affiliate program, it’s not a huge leap to apply them to new B2B partnerships to explore. And one of the things, the common theme I hear, whether it’s, you know, working with creator teams or B2B, is, you know, you have this center of excellence around your performance team. They’re used to recruiting, onboarding, activating, incentivizing, measuring, paying, contracting, all with all the mechanics that can be leveraged by this team. And then you can have your biz dev kind of hunters out there finding the partnerships, negotiating it and then helping having this center of excellence help enable those partnerships. And I think that’s where the company gets coordinated. That’s where this really sees a lot of momentum.

[00:35:15] David Yovanno All right. That’s a good wrap on our fourth theme around the trend of B2B partnerships. Let’s switch gears and cover off our fifth and last theme for the season. It’s actually one of the best parts, I think, of this podcast. You and I have teamed up and that you and I are very much aligned, that people are really after insight about their own career growth, right? As a, as a listener of our podcast. And so I think you and I always try and get some insight and some feedback and some stories from the guests that we interview to help listeners, you know, learn from from other people’s experiences. You know, it’s, you know, we’re asking them to, you know, basically just talk a lot about, you know, how they got to where they are today and what advice they have. And it’s just really been incredibly insightful to hear them describe exactly what makes them successful. I think it’s only fitting to wrap up this episode with the best career advice that we heard in Season five, as well as our own advice for listeners.

[00:36:11] Todd Crawford Yeah. Dave, you spoke with a few guests who’ve had long career journeys at the same company. And I guess, you know, I’m always curious to what what was their advice for moving up within an organization which can be challenging, especially a big company?

[00:36:25] David Yovanno So I think every one of my guests had excellent feedback and insight this year. Dan Armstrong, who’s been at Ticketmaster for ten years, shared a very powerful message, I think, in our episode, he said. Never shy away from doing the unglamorous work. You have to see what contributes to the organization and how you can be part of that. That was a direct quote, and he described one of his early jobs when he was cleaning out keyword lists all day long. And while it wasn’t glamorous, he knew it was going to be contributing to the overall success of the business. So don’t be afraid to get your hands dirty. Jackie Pimentel entire career journey is another one that comes to mind. She’s a great example of taking a risk based on passion and instinct. She went from a stable job at PwC big accounting firm to apply for an entry level job at Facebook before everyone knew what Facebook was or [00:37:17]could be. [0.0s] She felt like, you know, there was opportunities in the digital space and she was spending a lot of time on Facebook as a user. You fast forward to where she is today and she’s leading a global team at that. She also highlighted four qualities humility, flexibility, positivity and accountability, which I think, you know, we can all strive to embody. But I just love the key message in what she’s saying there around just going for it, right? If you’re passionate about something, go for it. And you know, you know, you can have an incredible experience, you know, to show for it.

[00:37:52] Todd Crawford I would say summarizing what I heard in the recent seasons is curiosity, you know, wanting to know more about the business instead of just your silo or your your department going into, you know, I heard, you know, people going into larger marketing meetings, getting into those, maybe to just learn about other channels, how they’re measuring what they’re doing. So the curiosity is a big thing. I think being smart about data, being able to present data in unique ways to help the company see things, different perspectives of the same data. And then as we kind of illustrated here, I mean, standing up a micro creator strategy or coordinating and expanding a B2B strategy. I mean, you’re you’re you’re doing something right for the company. You’re bringing in revenue. You’re you’re being open, you’ve got that that open loop, your feedback, you’re changing and adapting and you’re pushing the success. And we see that across a lot of examples in the conversations I’ve had where that’s exactly what they’re doing. And, you know, that stands out to leadership, you know, taking the initiative and and pushing and, you know, not getting steamrolled, being able to, you know, fight for what you think is right and getting things done really can move you up internally within a company very easily because they see the potential and they’re willing to put you on that next project or initiative.

[00:39:19] David Yovanno Yeah. And I would just add, you know, on top of what we learned from Dan and Jackie, which I very much agree with Dan again, talking about not being afraid to do inglorious work and your hands dirty. Jackie talking about, you know, taking risk, you know, pursuing stuff that you’re passionate about, you know. You know, from my unique perspective, I have daughters that are 25 and 24, some kind of dating myself here a little bit. But I am seeing how this next generation is coming into the workforce. And it’s interesting. They have a reputation. This generation has a reputation of looking for shortcuts or hacks. I don’t necessarily see that. I see this as a hard working, passionate. You know, people want to work. They want to be successful. I would agree, generally speaking, that people are looking for, you know, the, you know, the quickest path forward. But I think they’re mislabel that way. Largely speak I don’t know if you’ve noticed the same thing Todd, about how people feel about this generation, but I’m especially close to it. I see all their friends. I see how hard it is for them to get jobs out of college, but I also see how hard they’re working for it. There are some easy things to do that don’t require a lot of talent, right? Being on time, you know, having a strong work ethic, putting in the effort, the body language that you put off. Right? A lot of people feel entitled sometimes maybe, you know, depending on how they were raised, you had to work past that. So having positive body language, engaging body language, the energy that you bring to the job, your attitude, your passion, being coachable, doing extra, being prepared like those are all easy things to do, especially for those who are early in their career and want to, you know, grow and have purpose in their lives. You know, that’s the other thing I recognize about this generation. It’s not just about making a lot of money. I do think, you know, everything that I see on social media, I think, you know, money’s a big part of it. But I really do think that everyone in life and they should be looking for purpose. I think that is a path to happiness, like locking in on something that drives you. And so, you know, put all this together and find a way to pursue it and be happy as actually.

[00:41:26] Todd Crawford Yeah. And I think connecting with your peers, asking questions, you know, hopefully you work for a company that’s open book and, you know, anybody can go to you or me in our company and ask a question or get advice or feedback. So I think, you know, that’s obviously something that that’s helpful, too. And I love seeing new employees in the office and just their energy and how they’re interacting with other people. It seems to energize everyone else. So, you know, it’s you make you make your career, you know, it doesn’t it doesn’t happen. So, you know, you need to be in the driver’s seat and you just need to have a little confidence. And like you said, just put your best effort forward.

[00:42:07] David Yovanno If you don’t mind. I want to pile on and underscore what you just said, because I very much agree with that. And that is being confident to put yourself out there. Like I think people early in their careers don’t realize how accessible, you know, people who have experience are and are open to having a conversation. I love it when people come up to me directly and want to book time on my calendar or ask my advice on something. I think a lot of people think I’m too busy or, you know, you know, they’re not important enough or whatever it is. And I think you and I pride ourselves on being accessible, being a very flat, you know, organization, impact.com. And it’s just who we are as people want to invest in, you know, the next generation and pay it forward and help folks out and help people, you know, kind of grow in their careers. And so I really encourage people, especially early in your career, to don’t be afraid to reach out and find a mentor or at least a conversation with somebody who has the experience that you’re after. And, you know, even if it’s just 15 minutes with, you know, some regular check ins down the road throughout the year, that’s incredibly valuable right? To get, you know, just a guiding piece of advice. I remember in college I had a professor tell me that he he saw me as like a product manager at Procter and Gamble, just that one thing. He said it was just that office hour thing. That one tip set me in a whole direction to go. Want to be a product guy, right? And so, you know, it’s like, you know, you know, that that influence I understand the power of that advice and that influence. I think a lot of people in your position, Todd, in my position, understand that as we get older and want to share that information and just really encourage people to to reach out and seek it, don’t be afraid. Okay. So that’s pretty much a wrap here, Todd. So just want to thank our listeners for tuning in to another great season of The Partnership Economy podcast. Listening to our first ever joint Recap episode here, we’ll look to do more in the future. Can’t wait for you to hear what we’ve got lined up for Season six. We’ll see you on the pod.