Breaking Marketing Silos with Yulia Shilkina

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Advocacy Channel, a customer marketing podcast brought to you by impact.com today. Our host, Will Fraser welcomes Yulia Shilkina, who leads influencer marketing at Gen3 Marketing, the world’s largest affiliate marketing agency. With seven years of experience helping over 500 brands scale their partnership programs, Yulia brings unique insights on how affiliate and influencer marketing are converging. She’ll share how brands are blurring the lines between these channels, turning viral content into real sales, and finding their most authentic advocates, whether that’s nano creators with 6,000 followers or existing customers who are already raving about their products online.

Enjoy.

[00:00:51] Speaker B: Yulia, thank you so much for joining us today. It is such a pleasure to have you here. I’m excited to do the show.

[00:00:58] Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited.

[00:01:01] Speaker B: You know, before we jump into kind of our meat of the show today, I just wanted to pause and make sure that our listeners know what exactly it is that Gen 3 does and what type of clients you typically work with so they can kind of have some context for today’s episode.

[00:01:16] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.

Our incredible founders, Mike and Andy launched the company back in 2007 as a performance marketing agency. And over time, it evolved into became a full fledged affiliate marketing agency. And today we are proud to be recognized actually as the largest affiliate marketing agency in the world.

And why? We’ve long been known for our affiliate expertise. We’ve expanded far beyond that in the past few years, and we now support, I think, over 500 brands across a range of services, including affiliate performance, piece, pr, paid media, SEO and influencer marketing. Now, and our roster of clients spans just about every industry under the sun, it feels like, from traditional retail and subscription models to some of the biggest banks in the US So whether it’s driving scale through partnerships or launching integrated campaigns across channels, we’ve built to help brands grow with performance at the core.

[00:02:29] Speaker B: Wow, that’s. That’s a lot. I didn’t realize how the Gen 3 was that big, but I mean, I know you’re big, but that’s. That’s really impressive. So, so amazing there.

[00:02:38] Speaker C: I feel that marketing, I feel like such a niche. So it doesn’t require thousands of employees to become the biggest repute marketing. But yes, we did go through multiple acquisitions in the past years and I feel it is at our core and we are indeed the biggest in the world. And we are actually, our employees are present on every continent of the world. It’s just. Just a fun fact.

[00:03:05] Speaker B: Fun. That’s fun. Now, as you Were saying, you know, kind of Gen 3 started in the affiliate marketing space, but you do a lot more and you’ve, you’ve recently kind of brought in the influencer marketing channel if you want to that way the influence marketing world to your clients. I’m curious, you know, starting as a performance company or as an affiliate marketing agency, where do you see the overlap between influencer and affiliate marketing and where do you see the key differences?

[00:03:32] Speaker C: Yeah, great question. And actually I was at the beginning of it. I started at Gen3 seven years ago as an affiliate marketing manager and then was promoted to senior manager. So I was working with brands specifically in affiliate and, and the reason why we launched our influencer service the first place was because we started seeing influencer content naturally integrating into many of our clients affiliate programs. And so there was a clearly a growing appetite to work with more creators. But the traditional affiliate infrastructure wasn’t necessarily really built to support influencer partnerships at scale.

And on top of that, and I was personally there, most of affiliate teams were focused on managing traditional partners like loyalty cashback, coupon card, linked solutions later and then buy now, pay later partner. So any one traditional affiliate you can think of, so they didn’t really have time or resources to layer on a few full influencer strategy.

But then in terms of overlap I think between affiliate and influencers, I think both channels aim to influence a customer decision, right, in one or another way, whether it’s a trusted creator doing a product review or a simple cashback incentive. But I think the fundamental difference lays in attribution.

Influencer content lives at the very top of the funnel. It sparks interest, it builds trust and drives discovery.

While affiliate tends to reward that last click players, those who actually close the deal. And that creates a gap where influencer impact often gets undervalued in traditional affiliate models, even though it plays critical role in the overall journey. So that’s where when we started thinking, okay, how we can scale our influencer programs, what other tools are available out there and how we can marry the best of the two worlds.

[00:05:53] Speaker B: You know, it’s always interesting to me when I’m trying to explain this industry to, to my grandparents, I explain it as this where we pay people to recommend products and services, but know to recommend products.

And it’s interesting because that similarity does carry from affiliate to influencer to customer referrals and beyond.

But it is like these nuanced details that really matter, right? It is this idea as to like maybe where it is in the funnel, how do we engage them, how do we compensate them, how do we work with them? So, you know, I think it’s always a great way to kind of see where people are seeing the lines and where’s the delineation between those very, very interesting stuff there. I think though, as you’re talking about this like top of funnel, you’re talking about these different places that they play. You know, during a call we had earlier, you know, you were sharing a story around this viral video and the actual like organic sales results that it delivered versus when you worked with it in more of an influencer and, and paid supported way. So I was wondering maybe you could kind of retell that story because it was a really fascinating story, I think.

[00:07:00] Speaker C: Absolutely. And honestly, since that conversation we’ve seen more examples like this where we would work with creators to produce content and then content goes viral. So we had two videos that generated the total of 8 million views and we only saw a handful of affiliate sales. But then when we took that same exact content, exactly that content amplified through paid media, it generated over 1 million sales. So I think it’s, it’s a, it’s a fascinating learning that we see in more and more today.

And you know, it’s just as simple as that.

Buyers don’t typically convert after a single touch point, right. They might discover product in Creator’s TikTok, then later Google it, get hit with the retargeting ad, and finally make the purchase through a cashback site.

So that kind of journey is messy and it makes it hard to attribute the initial spark to the creator who introduced the product.

And I think that’s why amplifying organic influencer content through paid media is such a powerful strategy because you get the authenticity and trust that comes from influencer storytelling combined with the reach, hyper targeting and control of paid ads. And plus you can add a clear call to action right in the post that is not available in an organic post. And then you can track performance more effectively. And it’s not only about more impressions, it’s about making the most of the content that you already invested in.

[00:08:53] Speaker B: When you work with that influencer to create that organic content, what does that relationship look like? How does, how does that work? If you know you’re going to amplify it on paid media, you know, what model are you finding works best to, to influence that creator?

[00:09:07] Speaker C: My favorite type of relationships is when we give a total creative freedom to our partners. We give them the message, we give them the bullet point points on whether it’s a promotion or product or whatever. This could be and then let them lead the storytelling. And I find that this content is the most. I know we’re all tired of the world authenticity, but this content is the most natural, the most authentic. And honestly, the, the last campaign that we did for one of our clients, the highest performer in paid amplification was a creator with under 6,000 followers.

She was the top performer, bring in tens of thousands of dollars in sales versus a macro creator who saw a decent amount of organic views. We still do want to work with these creators for organic reach, but she wasn’t even close to that nano creator who was so authentic, so genuine in her review that it really resonated with the audience.

[00:10:19] Speaker B: Wow, that’s, that’s very cool. I mean, I think that speaks to the changing world of, of how creator content gets distributed, but how it connects as well. So whether it’s the algorithm picking up people based upon what the consumption is most likely, or whether it’s the paid media boosts, I think it’s really interesting though as, as you look at this that you’re, you’re bringing in that complete story, that complete funnel picture and you need ways to be able to track the contributions across the entire funnel.

One of the things that you talked about as well, which was really interesting, is this idea that I had never thought of. Maybe I’m, I’m lost here, but which was the saves and shares.

You know, you talked about this as an interesting funnel metric to look and I think that also ties back to the way you’re saying people can consume this content.

But maybe you could talk to us a little bit about the saves and the shares and really why marketers should care about this.

[00:11:09] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And Will, you’re not the one who may be lost sometimes because the result that we get there, it’s just like, wait, hold on.

We thought it doesn’t make sense, but okay, let’s go with this.

But no, it’s a great question because I think that saves and shares are some of the strongest signals of intent and trust and yet they are completely overlooked in favor of last click conversions of roas. And it takes a lot of education when it comes to communicating results back to our clients. But essentially when someone saves a post, it means that they are interested enough to come back to it later, which is huge in today’s endlessly browsing culture. And when someone saves or, sorry, shares content with a friend, that’s a peer to peer endorsement right there. And in the digital, it’s sort of the digital version of you’ve got to Check this out.

And we all know that word of mouth is still one of the most powerful forms of marketing.

However, these actions may not immediately show up in sales metrics. Right. But they absolutely influence consideration and buyer behavior, especially for higher price or considered purchases where people often need multiple touch points before converting. And so if you are only optimizing for bottom funnel metrics, you’re missing out the full picture of what’s driving real interest and trust your brand. So when we look at the campaign results, we sort of break it down by sales top performing, the highest engagement rate. We do look at comments as well. We look at the sentiments, what people are saying, how they react to comment to content and saves and shares is my favorite personally metrics because again, it means that people care.

[00:13:18] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, it’s interesting, after you and I had chatted with this before, I started kind of viewing my own behavior through that lens and realizing that, absolutely, that is a great metric of, of how I, I am, you know, considering purchases. I will admit I’m more of a saver than a sharer.

But I know one thing we talk about as well in customer referrals is the idea that a recommendation of a friend is the only form of marketing that skips consideration. As in when my friend tells me you need to buy, you know, this protein powder, you do it. You don’t really go and do a bunch of research. And I think we kind of find the middle ground when we’re sharing this kind of authentic content. But it’s a really important piece of that journey to remember that it is such an impactful piece when somebody shares a recommendation with a friend. And that’s effectively, you said, like, this is the digital, you got to check this out kind of statement.

Yeah, really.

[00:14:15] Speaker C: And I get FOMO when someone is recommended something to me and I don’t own it. So I need to immediately check this out. And again, I may not be in the market for this thing, but then I will save it. So it creates the cycle. Right. And for I’m also a saver, I, I have my food folder, my clothing folder, and then, yeah, sometimes you just don’t have time to go and click, click on the bio, click on linktreet, click on the website, I save it, and then I do it at a later time whenever I’m ready to make a purchase.

[00:14:53] Speaker B: Yeah, it’s interesting now when we’re, you know, you’re kind of tired of these authentic pieces of content. Right. And you know, one would imagine that like customers are the most authentic creators of Content, you know, we kind of shift our view to that. You know, have you seen or are you working with, working with any brands that are successfully converting their own customers into like influencers or into affiliates in any way or what does that look like?

[00:15:17] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s a huge part of our strategy.

And some of the most natural and effective influencer partnerships actually start with a brand’s existing customer base. And we’ve had success with identifying people who are already tagging, mentioning and genuinely loving our clients products on social.

And these are real fans. Right. And they’re often already creating great content organically. So what we do, we, we track those mentions and then we prioritize creators whose content aligns with brands aesthetics and values and then we reach out to, to start the conversation and it’s a warm outrage. Right. It’s not a cold pitch because they’re already engaged. And then we invite them to influencer campaigns or affiliate programs where they can start earning commissions or receiving product perks for doing what they were already doing for free. And this transition feels really natural for both sides.

The brand gets relatable UGC with built in trust and the creator feels seen and valued. And it’s not always about chasing the biggest follower count. It’s about tapping into people who actually love the product and they want to share it. And again going back to that example with the nano creator, she had under 6,000 followers. I think in Ya Jin’s year has similar.

Some were followers this day.

[00:16:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I think that’s such an interesting switch for us. Right. And I think it’s always, it’s interesting watching the lines blur between like customer influencer and maybe even to affiliate. But this idea that like, yeah, like this, this, you know, micro nano influencer with 6,000 followers is able to have such a high impact.

And you know, many of our customers, maybe not 6,000, but like they’re not, they’re not small and they are meaningful to their own communities.

[00:17:21] Speaker C: I think that’s such an interesting story. But with macro, I think even with macro we have a brand who is looking specifically for YouTubers who have mentioned the brand before and they don’t care about the following size. And we’ve seen some even macro creators who love the products. It’s a big software company, they love the product already and they are including them in the content. So it’s so easy for us. And again, the outreach is so warm because we are saying hey, we really love this video.

We. You already have it. Here is an affiliate link for you to start earning commissions on it. And if you’re open to creating more content, let’s talk about sponsorship opportunities. So again, it’s a combination of influencer and affiliate, and it’s getting, they are merging more and more, especially in the past couple of years.

[00:18:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that’s just so cool to me. I think that just feels so cool to me to see that, like, brands are actually finding their fans out there, finding their champions and working with them. You know, I know we, we understand in the affiliate space there’s like, you know, the finding partners through things like the marketplaces and, and conferences are important, but it’s a little bit more manageable, a little bit easier to do that because, you know, people are kind of putting their hand up and saying, hey, I’m, I’m here to work. But when you’re looking at those, like those customers, those smaller YouTubers, you know, that’s a very interesting discovery challenge I think, that we still have as an industry, but just such a powerful result by the sounds, what you’re telling me and what I’ve seen when it does work.

[00:18:54] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And I’ve heard so many times in the recent conferences this year that people are using social media and specifically YouTube, like they’ve, they had this breakdown by age that people are using it to solve a problem. So it says that men of certain age are mostly on YouTube, searching how to fix, I don’t know, like whatever it is they are fixing.

[00:19:21] Speaker B: I, I feel both seen and concerned at once here.

[00:19:27] Speaker C: And then younger Generation goes on TikTok to search for again, solution, not a brand, but for a solution to the problem. And it opens up a whole conversation about optimizing your keywords, the entire SEO strategy on social media now. So it’s really, it’s really cool.

It’s fun times to be in this industry, for sure.

[00:19:54] Speaker B: Absolutely. And it sounds like there’s a ton more we could talk about here, for sure.

I think as we kind of wrap up though, because we can’t go forever, unfortunately. Although I think we’d both love to if there was kind of one nugget. Right. The single most important thing that you think listeners could take away today about understanding kind of a modern affiliate and influencer strategy working together.

What do you think that nugget is for them?

[00:20:20] Speaker C: Oh, that’s a hard one.

If it’s just one piece, I think that would be that. Again, like what we’ve been discussing that the lines between affiliate and influencer marketing are blurring and brands that treat them as one connected ecosystem are the one that are winning right now. Again, today’s customer journey isn’t linear. A creator post might spark interest, an affiliate link might close the sale and paid media might reinforce the message in between. So if you silo this channels, you’re missing the full picture and probably leaving a lot of value on the table. So I think the key is to build a strategy that connects the dots. Combine authentic content with performance driven incentives, use data to track influence across the funnel, and most importantly, work with players and partners who are actually loving your brand already.

[00:21:22] Speaker B: Love that little nugget. Love that there’s so much packed in there. There’s so much that someone can do.

And now if someone wanted to connect with you and they want to talk more and learn more about that, what would be the best way for them to connect with you?

[00:21:33] Speaker C: Of course. Yeah. I just wanted to say thank you again for having me today. It was a pleasure. And thank you all of the listeners for tuning in. You can email us info@gen3marketing.com or connect with me directly on LinkedIn. We are always happy to hop on a discovery call and then tailor a strategy that fits your unique goals.

[00:21:57] Speaker B: Thank you very much. What a wonderful call. I know I learned a lot here today. I hope that our listeners did as well. Just Yulia, thank you so much for your time and can’t wait to have you back on the show.

[00:22:08] Speaker C: Thank you.

[00:22:10] Speaker A: Thank you for tuning in to another insightful episode of the Advocacy Channel brought to you by impact.com we hope you enjoyed learning from you Yulia about building connected ecosystems that bring together influencer, authenticity and affiliate performance.

If you enjoy today’s episode, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe. Wherever you listen to podcasts looking to build powerful partnership programs that connect influencers, affiliates and customer advocates, visit npact.com to discover how our platform can help you track, manage and operate every partnership across your entire marketing funnel. Join us next time for more expert insights on the Advocacy Channel.